This episode features an interview with Sheila Jordan, SVP and Chief Digital Technology Officer at Honeywell. She discusses the importance of leaders having empathy, the benefits of utilizing Snowflake in your organization, using data to respond to the pandemic, and much more.
This episode features an interview with Sheila Jordan, SVP and Chief Digital Technology Officer at Honeywell. She discusses the importance of leaders having empathy, the benefits of utilizing Snowflake in your organization, using data to respond to the pandemic, and much more.
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Producer: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the data cloud podcast. Today's episode features an interview with Sheila Jordan and she is the chief digital technology officer at Honeywell. Sheila has spent the last 20 years becoming an it expert. She has held senior positions at companies across several industries from Walt Disney, to Cisco, to Symantec.
In this episode, she'll discuss the importance of leaders to have empathy, the benefits of utilizing snowflake in your organization, using data to respond to the pandemic and so much more. So please enjoy this interview between Sheila Jordan and your host, Steve ham.
Steve Hamm: Welcome to the podcast,
Sheila Jordan: Sheila. Thank you, Steve.
So, so awesome to be here.
Steve Hamm: Yeah. So Honeywell is one of America's best known industrial brands. And it's now going through a bold transition. It's spun off its consumer brands, and it's focusing more than in the [00:01:00] past on data and software. Tell us about Honeywell's businesses and the company's transformation.
Sheila Jordan: Sure. So I joined actually in January of 2020. We'll talk about that COVID experience in just a bit, but one of the reasons why I joined is Honeywell does have a very aggressive transformation agenda. In fact, every single function and every single strategic business unit has a digital agenda and digital transformation.
We have five actually strategic business. The first is aerospace. So we actually produce a lot of hearts for airlines and aftermarket parts. Our second strategic business unit is oil and gas. And specifically, when we talk about sustainability, we've been at the green sustainability agenda for at least two decades.
The third business we have is a Honeywell building technology, which is really about the air quality and the sensors and everything in the actual office facility. So we all know how important that is returning back to the office and how important the quality of the office is. That's our home building technology division.[00:02:00]
And then fourth is our safety productivity security systems, which is really around mask. Fireman suit. So everything we do on the safety and protective gear, and then finally the newest really strategic business unit is our Honeywell connected enterprise. And that's where we're taking a lot of our products and services that have traditionally been hardware in making them software.
So think. Think about where it and OT converge. And if you are running facilities and you're running sites and you're running buildings, it's where you, as the, as the owner and the management of those facilities, you get an opportunity to see how all, all technology connects. Between it and OT in this environment, which we'll, again, we'll talk about a little later called forge analytics.
So that's our Honeywell connected enterprise. Tell us
Steve Hamm: what is OT?
Sheila Jordan: What does that? So OT is operational technology. Okay. So it's all that technology one would have in a supply chain or a manufacturing site. It's all that technology that runs the site. So think about operational technology.
Steve Hamm: Okay. [00:03:00] And in each case of all these five businesses, it's a lot of, it's really about applying technology more to the products and services.
Is that really the, the transformation
Sheila Jordan: that's underway? Actually it's no, it's really about, we've always produced a lot of technology. We've always produced a lot of parts and services, but really what I would say the difference is how do we go digital? How are we using data more? How are we connecting more to our suppliers and our partners and our supply chain?
You know, as, as you can imagine, we are a significant supply chain and manufacturers, so supplies matter. And when we get those, so it's really around, how do we take these massive relationships in this ecosystem that we do business. And make it more digital. So reduce complexity, simplify, and ultimately deliver products and services faster to our customers and partner.
Okay,
Steve Hamm: very good. Good. Now you referred very briefly to the fact that you joined just before COVID just before the, the crisis struck. Uh, tell us about that. Describe your role at the [00:04:00] company, the strategy you're pursuing and the impact of COVID on what you do.
Sheila Jordan: Yeah. So, uh, again, I'm chief digital technology officer.
So what that means is I run all the technology, the it corporate technology, as well as data. Rolls out to me since it's digital and dig and data is a part is a significant part of our digital transformation. So I joined the company. I was day 59 when Honeywell being 114 year old company decided we needed to go work from home.
And so we realized quickly that we needed to redesign our network. We needed to get. Laptops to 83,000 employees across the globe. So I literally called my friends at Cisco and Dell and said, please help. And we did. We redesigned the network and distributed laptops in an eight day period. So it enabled our entire 110,000 employees minus our manufacturing employees to actually be able to work from home very quickly and adjust to the, to the whole new COVID way of working.
Since that time though, I'll tell you that when I joined and why I joined is Darius our CEO and chairman in the [00:05:00] management team here had a very, very, very aggressive agenda on transformation. Again, every function and every strategic business unit has a, has a, has a plan. And so I thought that would be kind of exciting, cuz my role and my team just in the middle of all of that.
So when COVID happened, as you can imagine, we started to see softness in our aerospace business. We started to see softness in our oil and gas business, and yet in the, in the company, we made a pretty significant decision. To keep accelerating transformation. We did not take our gas pedal and we continued plowing through it.
Cuz we knew at some point this would, would be over the COVID situation and, and therefore would be that much more ahead. And I would say that the organization here views the whole digital transformation as a competitive advantage. And would've working ahead.
Steve Hamm: So tell us specifically, what are you charged with
Sheila Jordan: doing.
So, if you think about all the corporate it systems, let's start with network and infrastructure first. So network infrastructure, we make sure that the network data centers cloud, how we're [00:06:00] moving to either AWS or Azure or Google on the cloud. So really think about everything around infrastructure. And again, we have over 400 sites and we're over 83 countries.
So think about all the network and infrastructure across the globe, right. That's one. And the second layer is really around applications. So think about all the applications that run. A corporate business. So it's your E R P bus. It's your E R P. It's your CRMs? It's your PLM and ALM for engineering. It's an agile law for legal.
So think every function, of course, all the financial systems think every function in every strategic business unit, all the applications that support the business and then of course is data. So what we're doing with data, and we'll talk a little bit more about that, but we've really made a big decision to enable the company to have one enterprise data.
W. And we've moved into that, that charter and that vision. And it's yielding some significant value for the company.
Steve Hamm: Now you've worked for a variety of companies, um, Symantec, Cisco [00:07:00] Disney, quite quite a variety. As a matter of fact, Hey, tell us about the leadership lessons you learned in your career and how you're applying them at honey.
Sheila Jordan: That's a great question. And I would say yes, I've been very fortunate to work in Def different industries. Cuz I think one that is it's for me, it's fun to be able to work and say consumer direct and then go to Cisco and deep networking and then go learn security at Symantec in. I love to be able to apply what I learned in a different industry.
So that's kind of what I'm doing at Honeywell as well is taking all those learnings and applying it. But I would say from a leadership standpoint, the most important thing is authenticity. You know, there is a, um, it's a very, you know, we've all been through COVID, we've all feel the, the, the, the tire, the exhaustion from COVID, and not only from working in, in front of zoom or, or whatever technology for 12, 14 hours a day.
Just the sheer effect and impact COVID O's having on our friends and family. I don't know of anyone that directly impacted by that. So I'd say just in general, we have to make [00:08:00] sure that we're, we're more empathetic leaders. So authentically and empathy, I think are really important. Someone once told me that the only thing, the only thing constant, especially in technology, in, in my job and, and, and really what we're responsible for is the fact that it's 24 hours a day.
Right. That's really the only thing that's constant. How you choose to use those 24 hours, how you choose to have an impact, how you choose to drive strategies, how you choose to develop and grow your team. It's really on the leader. And I think the two attributes that make that work is authenticity and empathy.
Yeah. Yeah,
Steve Hamm: no, I love that. The, the talk about empathy and, and. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember people talking about empathy very much in leadership in past years. I, I, it really feels like COVID has brought that home and, and that hopefully it'll stick,
Sheila Jordan: right? Yeah. I actually think you're right.
I think it's made it. Made it okay to talk about it. I think we've, we've historically talked about the [00:09:00] hard skills and the soft skills. And I really do. I really believe that companies I've chosen to work for have all have valued both sides of that. Right. But I think it's been hard and soft skills. I do think.
COVID has taught us all to be a lot more empathetic and understand that we've gotta make sure that we, the whole being, cuz I think what's happened in COVID and I also hope this doesn't go away is there's so many things that I can't wait to shake hands and be live. And I mean I'm energized by having the team and being, working with the team.
But I will say that on COVID you had a few minutes before these calls to see people in their environ. To see their kids to meet their dogs yeah. To see their whole being and their whole life. And I just think that's just been a remarkable reminder that the holistic person is super important to understand and recognize and value.
No, I,
Steve Hamm: I, I agree with you seeing, seeing people's background, let's go back in history though a little bit. When and why did Honeywell first engage with snowflake in its data
Sheila Jordan: platform? Well, it was Preme. So again, I started in January, 2020, and one of our strategic business units [00:10:00] was using snowflake quite extensively.
And then I came in and said, okay, we need an overall strategy on the enterprise data warehouse or enterprise data platform. And so we actually put together the strategy, the architecture, we deployed that predominantly in 2020, and then really began to also deploy the architecture technology, but also began.
Move and migrate a lot of information and data elements to our enterprise data platform.
Steve Hamm: Yeah. Now previous to this, I mean, you have, so you have five business units. One of them is fairly new and there have been some other reorgs, but before this, did they, they didn't share data very frequently or very easily,
Sheila Jordan: correct?
Yes and no. I, several years ago, which I think was important is our management team decided that when we centralized the it organization, I would say four or five years ago now, so way before I joined and what we did at that point was we realized one to centralize it. But also with that comes a notion of creating a global design model.
So we're gonna have a [00:11:00] global design model for let's say Salesforce. We're gonna have a global design model for our Adobe deployment or CPQ. So what that does is we hear the global design model. We in it produce the platform and then each of the SBGs will converge onto that platform when they decide that they're, that that's a priority for them.
So it really takes away that every SBG was doing things D. Uh, it really does consolidate it's standardized it simplifies, and that was well underway before I joined. And we've just now completed a lot of that work. Yeah.
Steve Hamm: And with the enterprise data warehouse, they're able to share whenever they're ready, they come in.
Yeah. Their data's all there and they
Sheila Jordan: can share it. Yeah. Yeah. Well the enterprise data warehouse, and again, we chose snowflake, but the enterprise data warehouse, it's a little bit different because what we've decided to do is to populate the enterprise data warehouse with key relevant information. So we started this journey in, in 20, and then in 21, we got about 60% of the enterprise data warehouse [00:12:00] populated.
And then this year we'll finish that. And so now what's happening and again, think about a transactional system, throws off revenue or bookings and billings in order, whatever the each transactional system delivers. But the value is when you have all that data from different transactional systems together.
Into the enterprise data warehouse, you start to glean new, new insights and new learnings and new things that you could put together that you otherwise couldn't put together. Given of course, the scale of Honeywell, but also the volume and plethora of data that we're dealing with. You can only do that through technology.
So we're super excited about what we've been able to deliver in with our data warehouse.
Steve Hamm: Yeah. Yeah. And so the, the engagement with snowflake was that right from the start about creating the enterprise data warehouse or did it start smaller and then expand into this big vision?
Sheila Jordan: No, that actually started before I was here.
Yeah. So they had the enterprise data warehouse vision and the, and the team, one of the groups had, had [00:13:00] selected snowflake. And so then when I saw that we had the beginnings of an architecture, the beginnings of it, it was one of the strategic business units that started it. And then we just said, okay, I came in and I'm used to having an enterprise data warehouse.
And so we need to triple down accelerate. And then we moved through that in 20, in 21. And both the architecture. Integration. I mean the whole, the whole architecture is super important. What data wants to come into the enterprise data warehouse, the, the sequencing, all of that was really important, so that all that work was done in 20 and 21.
And we'll probably, I don't wanna say finish, but we'll have a big percentage of the data loaded into the enterprise data warehouse for the end of this year.
Steve Hamm: Okay. So it would be great. I think for the, for the listeners to hear a couple of examples of how you're using this enterprise data warehouse, how, what kind of concrete benefits are you getting
Sheila Jordan: out of it?
Yeah. So one is, if you think about. What we were doing. We also simultaneously implemented a prose technology for pricing.[00:14:00] And so what we did is we put pros, which does guidance and control. But anyway, we put the application of pros in and started to really do think about this as more dynamic pricing.
We have over 4 million sellable stews inside of honey. Oh my God. Oh yeah. So the other thing of Honeywell is the volume is just significant. So now we're pricing those 4 million sellable fuels in near real time. So that's really exciting. And then as you know, the supply chain with COVID and where we are right now has become a significant challenge for most businesses.
And especially those in that have inventory has become a significant issue in supply chain. So what we're trying to do is to figure out, okay, what does all this mean? And understand the challenges that this is offering us and every industrial company is dealing with this. So we started to see these increases in inflation.
So we're like, okay, these increases where inflation came really last minute and they were pretty significant. So during a discussion, we said, well, why can't we tie inflation to our pricing? Sure. So why can't we link that together? So that's a really significant thing we put into, [00:15:00] into play, like the fall of last year.
The same with surcharge. You know, we basically were in some businesses, we were charging surcharge and others, we weren't. So we said, well, why let's look at what the reasonable fair market value is for surcharge, Amazon charges, that's all, all shipping, right? So yes, what's the surcharge we could apply are shipping.
We could charge that's reasonable and responsible, but also we're consistent. So there's a whole bunch of things. Again, the value of the enterprise data warehouse is to. Those pieces of data together that normally sit in a transactional system, but now you have an opportunity to link those together, to deliver this kind of value.
Okay. I
Steve Hamm: see this, this journey to one enterprise data warehouse, where do you see it? I mean, what's the next step? What, what are the next step in terms of capabilities and what's the next step in terms of, of, of results that you'll be
Sheila Jordan: able to get? Yeah. So a couple things. One is, again, by the end of this year, we'll have most of our relevant information loaded.
But I think we're always gonna be ready to respond to whatever new use case [00:16:00] comes about. So I think we've gotta always be willing to respond to some use case, like for example, surcharge or inflation. , but what I'm most excited about is the data cloud that snowflake offers. When you start thinking about third party data, that's publicly available that we can start to use, like for us in logistics, weather matters, right?
Weather really matters across organization. And one would think whether isn't, why is that important for logistics? Well, it's hugely important. So pulling together and we already used the data cloud for our market competitiveness. We, we look at market. So that's already one kind of linkage in the data cloud, but the data cloud has the offer opportunity to add in on top of our enterprise data warehouse, publicly available, third party data.
And I just think Steve we're just beginning to scratch the surface on that. Like we've got five or six different data threads that we know today, but we're just beginning to scratch the surface on what that could mean.
Steve Hamm: Yeah. That's a real marketplace opportunity. Yes. I think we're at the very beginning of it.
Now, I know you don't [00:17:00] oversee the Honeywell forge analytics platform, but I think our listeners will be interested in learning what it is and how it works.
Sheila Jordan: Yes. Great question. I'm super excited about forge. So when you think about Honeywell connected enterprise, think about let's just for example, say that you are in charge of property for a large fortune 100 company, and you're in charge of all the property across the.
So, what, what forge allows you to do is it's like a cockpit for you're like a cockpit that provides you like an air traffic controller to manage those properties remotely across the globe. And it isn't just about managing the properties on HVAC and sensors and the front door being open or locked, or, you know, just the.
Pacific air quality, those things that we would think about the building, but you can actually see again, think about this cockpit, this analytics about where it information that's in that building the it systems, as well as the OT, the operational technology and how the building is running is coming together.
Right. So I [00:18:00] can actually see if I'm in New York and I can see this building in Dubai. And if they're having a problem in one of the doors is open or one of the areas, the sensors aren't working. So we can actually see. For all commercially available property, almost across the globe. Right? So the ability to run that and then see the issue and take action on it.
That's ultimately what forge in our Honeywell connection enterprise will deliver. Mm-hmm so
Steve Hamm: they're really connected.
Sheila Jordan: Yes, connected and data. It's very much built on software data. All that information comes from the sensors. And again, as we all progress in supply chain and you think about robotics, you know, if a person's having a problem or called in sick and not there, but how do you detect quickly that the robot's not working and how do you.
Tech quickly that there's some, there's something flawed in the manufacturing cycle of the machinery. So the machinery we begin to learn about the machinery, the machinery can tell us what's what's not working. And then we can with, for analytics, detect that, see it, and fix it through the, through the analytics.
Yeah. Yeah.
Steve Hamm: So we've been [00:19:00] talking a, a bit about Honeywell's building control system, building systems, all that kind of stuff. And I know that the company's products and services help customers improve their environmental sustainability and your new headquarters in Charlotte is a showcase for environmentally friendly building technologies.
So tell us about that. How is the company using data to foster its own sustainability and that of its customers? .
Sheila Jordan: Yeah, so a couple things on that. So first of all, Honeywell has really, roughly two decades of sustainability. We've been working on things like plastics and recycling plastics, more efficiently, next generation of batteries.
We work through in our, in our oil and gas business. We're looking at low cost carbon capture, and we all have green. We're doing a lot of work on green fuels. So I would say in general that we have been working on sustainability efforts for the last two decades. In fact, we made a commitment to the world that said we would be carbon neutral by [00:20:00] 2035
So we're super excited about that. It's really exciting. Every single one of our businesses support and do some produce some products and services that make a move towards the sustainability strategy. Having said that the building, the headquarters at, in Charlotte is absolutely fantastic. We have applied a lot of our home building technology, air quality sensors.
We actually have sign, which is our new technology, which is completely facial recognition from the parking lot, all the way up to your offices. We showcase a lot of the technology on our top floor, which is our executive briefing center for our customers. We have through and through, we have the entire building, all using the Honeywell technology.
And the really cool thing is on the 23rd floor, which is the top floor where our customers will come in and visit us. We have a room that showcases the operations behind the building, right? So we're again, leveraging all the technology that we produce to offer this incredibly. Technology driven, but more importantly, a better [00:21:00] building offering as it relates to the overall quality of the building.
Steve Hamm: Yeah. Yeah. You know, in my town, which is new Haven, Connecticut, we have a, an historic building Bowhouse style. It was the headquarters of Armstrong rubber. And then Parelli wow. It's been converted. It's being converted into the, the, the country's first net zero hotel. Oh, wow. Yeah. And I made a little made a little video about it, which if you're interested, I'll send you the link.
I think you might, you
Sheila Jordan: might enjoy it. Oh, I'd love to see it. I'd love
Steve Hamm: to see it. I have a feeling there's a bit of Honeywell technology in there. let's hope just, just a guess. Yeah. Good. Well, that, that's a great example. I mean, I think one of the things that COVID has done it, it's woken us up to a lot of things.
The need for empathy, the need to work together. And the need to be greener and to address, you know, climate issues and stuff like that. And I, and I, that's another one of those things that I hope sticks and people really get to it. It's not just a passing
Sheila Jordan: kind of fad. Well, it's sustainability [00:22:00] and green is a very big part of our strategy.
It's Honeywell strategy. So yes, it will stick here at least.
Steve Hamm: Yeah. Good. Good. Hey, let's look into the future a little bit, looking ahead over the next year or so. What are the technology and business trends that you, that you think will have the most impact on how enterprises manage and exploit data?
Sheila Jordan: So I really think that I think most companies have done a fairly good job at having an enterprise data warehouse and bringing the data together.
But I still think we're scratching the surface on what exactly AI can do and contribute. We all have examples of what AI can do, but I think we're just scratching the surface and that for me, AI and automation, when you use those two things, it's because you've got this plethora of data it's because you've got an opportunity to automate a repeatable task.
and, or find something about the data that the human eye can't do. Like that's the value of the technology. And I would say for the first time, in a long time, the technology has outpaced. [00:23:00] The adoption of it, like it really is available. We've got all this technology out there. So what we need to do is to apply these use cases and train the models and train the model.
Yeah. Get smart and smart and smarter. And so then you're gonna get some answers that you otherwise, you know, wouldn't have seen or known before. Yeah. So I really think that's the next. Big differentiator that, and what that does is it gives you speed because again, it historically, and for a whole host of reasons and no, no excuses, but for a whole host of reasons, things take time in it.
They just do you get the foundation, you gotta get your architecture set up. You gotta go look at the cloud, you gotta negotiate with the vendors and the suppliers, you gotta like start populating the data. And it just takes time. It is like the infrastructure, when you are building a town or a home and you gotta get the plumbing.
Right. And the road's right. And all that infrastructure takes. But I think we're for the most part, most companies are beyond that. And now it's to take advantage of the data that we all have captured. And how do we just continue to [00:24:00] extrapolate accretive value? That's what I said about. Yeah.
Steve Hamm: Yeah. I mean, I think that's a great idea.
I mean, when I think about machine learning, One of the greatest applications I I can think of is in smart buildings and building controls that constant feed of data, new data all the time, improving the models, optimizing continuously and continuous improvement. I think it's, uh, and it's automated. You don't have to be tinkering with it.
You just, if you set it up right, it improves itself. So I think that's a, that's a wonderful example.
Sheila Jordan: I see
the future fascinating modern age we live in. Is this what the future holds.
Steve Hamm: Now I'm gonna ask you to put on your visionary cap, please look out five years or. How will data and technology revolutionize business and even society,
Sheila Jordan: other than what I've said already, I just think it's gonna teach us things that we don't know today.
Like things we [00:25:00] don't know, we, we know what happens in a transactional system, or we know what happens in our general metrics of how you run a business revenue, bookings, billings, backlog, OPEX, CapEx, TNL. We know that, but what, what I think we don't know. What's the sentiment of our customers and what's the sentiment of our, our employees and how does that really affect and impact the business results?
So I think, again, we've done, we've talked a lot about AI as it applies to the corporate data and the data that's been here, four walls, but when we can actually marry the sentiment and the more social data to corporate data and learn new things that we otherwise wouldn't see, I think that's, that's gonna be a really compelling.
Compelling opportunity for both business, but also like you said, social, because again, the other thing I would tell you is with this information, it's going to help us be more predictive and not reactive. So could we then predict the next social problem we might [00:26:00] encounter? Could we predict. What's gonna happen with the environment.
So I just think we're gonna get way smarter about tying things together that are naturally not tied together. And then two, how do we predict?
Steve Hamm: No, that's that's great. I mean, it's just a classic connecting the dots, finding, finding connections that are, that are hidden or finding them faster. I think all those things are.
Great. Yeah.
Sheila Jordan: For your information. There's a lot more to Oger than people think really need to dig deep and get to know the real youth in the real love, close and personal.
Steve Hamm: We're coming to the end of the podcast. And we like to end on a more personal or lighter note. I see, you know, that we did a little bit of research.
I see that you published a book in 2018. You are not ruining your kids. Fascinating. Tell us about that. What led to you writing the book and, and what's your
Sheila Jordan: message. Yeah. So it is a, is intended to be a positive [00:27:00] perspective of the working mother. Yeah. So when my kids were, they're now 28 and 26, and I realized when they went to college, They had learned so many things that I had done without necessarily teaching them.
It just, they were absorbed. They absorbed so many things as a working mother that you don't think about. So I thought when I first, when the oldest went to college, you know, he did some things. And then when my second one went to college, he did some things that were different than the other kids at his age.
And I said, God, I really haven't earned my kids. so he hence the. And really it's meant to be, I'm not proclaiming to be the best, the perfect mother in the world. It's just for what I found when I was going through it is that there's nothing really written about it. It's about, oh my God, how you balance this work life, work, life balance.
And here's how to, how to, how to deal with both working and also your family. And it wasn't really about the celebration of the working mother. It was more about, here's some things to help you because we know it's hard. Yeah. So I wanted this book to be tips and trick. You're not [00:28:00] alone. Here's some, and it, and it really did span across their, when they were born all the way through the, you know, college.
And it really is just about giving, giving the working mother some cuz I think sometimes we're our worst enemy and we gotta be perfect at everything perfect at our job. Perfect at work. Perfect. You know, and everything we do. And I think the intention is that we really wanna make sure that cut yourself a break and it's okay.
That one of the stories in the book is I'd get the laundry done. Do all the things, but I got over the fact that it all had to be folded and neatly put away every single time I did the laundry. I mean, it was okay sometimes to have the laundry cleaned it in a basket. So, so those kinds of things, just to make sure that women have a perspective that we can, we can work and raise our family.
And it's a positive perspective on that.
Steve Hamm: Are there any tips in there about getting spouses or, or partners to do more work around the house and more child rearing?
Sheila Jordan: Yeah. Yes. His examples in there, I was very fortunate to have my husband who I've [00:29:00] now been married to 30 years. And I would say that we, we absolutely shared the total responsibilities.
He had a little bit more of a flexible work schedule than I did, so he had the afternoon and he could pick up the kids and go to their sporting events. And, and, and there are so many examples of how. We didn't have the traditional roles and, and honestly, we're, so we're very different. Just our personalities are very different.
And I actually think that in and of itself also gave the kids an opportunity to see and work with two different personalities. And I think it helped formed different personalities that, that encounter the rest of their lives. So, yes, there's a whole bunch in there about just joint responsibilities.
Steve Hamm: Yeah, I'm trying to be good.
Okay, good. trying
Sheila Jordan: to be better
Steve Hamm: you my book yeah. Yeah. Very cool. Hey, I, I think this has been a wonderful conversation, lots of high level strategic advice and, and, and information and lots of down on the trenches, how we get it done. [00:30:00] In particular, I appreciated your comment about leadership and about empathy, the importance of empathy and how COVID has really brought that home.
And I am with you. I hope that that stays because you know, one of the things I think about is sometimes in our, our quest to be more successful, more efficient, more productive. Sometimes we give short shrift to the human. To the relationships, to how we're, how we're, how, how we're treating people and how we're thinking about them.
And I think hopefully out of this disaster, over the last couple of years, something that will stick will be being more humanistic.
Sheila Jordan: So I totally agree. And I, I look at that, I think sometimes you're right, we get so, so focused on the financials in the performance metrics and that my philosophy on that, on that.
The single biggest asset inside the company is the people and behind every number, whether it's revenue, [00:31:00] bookings, billings, OPEX, savings, productivity, people, or driving that. And I think we, we often lose sight of that. Yeah.
Steve Hamm: Well, great. Well, thank you so much for your time today. It's been great talking to you and I I'm positive that the listeners will get a lot
Sheila Jordan: out of this one.
Thank you so much wonderful to meet you. Join the
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