The Data Cloud Podcast

Utilizing Data-Backed Empathy with Patrick Duroseau, VP of Enterprise Data Management at Under Armour

Episode Summary

In this episode, Patrick Duroseau, VP of Enterprise Data Management at Under Armour, talks about how to be a data evangelist in your organization, how Under Armour has migrated to the cloud, servant leadership, and so much more.

Episode Notes

In this episode, Patrick Duroseau, VP of Enterprise Data Management at Under Armour, talks about how to be a data evangelist in your organization, how Under Armour has migrated to the cloud, servant leadership, and so much more.

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Episode Transcription

Producer: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the data cloud podcast. Today's episode features an interview with Patrick DeRosa, vice president of enterprise data management at under Armour. He has over 20 years of experience developing and managing global enterprise environments and improving data, culture, and literacy across teams.

And this episode, Patrick talks about how to be a data evangelist in your organization. How under Armour has migrated to the cloud servant leadership and so much more. So please enjoy this interview between Patrick Barroso and your host, Steve ham. 

Steve Hamm: So Patrick, it's great to have you on the podcast. 

Patrick Duroseau: It's great to be here.

Steve Hamm: Now our listeners are familiar with Underarmour. No question about that, but please fill us in, on some of the dimensions of the business. It's competitive dynamics, that sort of thing. Any major shifts in strategy underway. 

Patrick Duroseau: Well, again, thanks. Thanks again for having me. And thanks for the question. We'll start at the basic high level.

I mean, under Armour is a [00:01:00] global omni-channel retailer. I think one of the great things that we've done in over the past few years, our leadership has done has really helped define who and what we are. And as an organization, really proud because we've really settled in on the concept of what you'll hear is our purpose.

We empower those who strive for more, and that really helps drive our, our vision, which has been around forever. And that's to inspire you with performance solutions, you never knew you needed and can't imagine living without. So what does that all mean? And really going to the heart of your question, we really looked to focus in delivering.

That to our, to our end consumers in any form or fashion. And we have a presence throughout the, throughout the globe through wholesalers, through retail stores that we franchise partners, et cetera. So I think with most retailers nowadays, you'll hear the concept of DTC or direct to consumer. And I would say that that's really where I wouldn't call it a shift per se, but a lot of focus because [00:02:00] the more we can communicate with our consumers.

And the more personalized we can do that, the better we can really deliver on our purpose and our. 

Steve Hamm: Yeah. Yeah. Hey, if you would describe the, kind of the array of products, uh, cause people, they may have some of your products, but they may not understand the whole, the whole array of products that are available.

Patrick Duroseau: It really, again, if you think about what a focus performer is, it's those who are really pushing themselves and striving for more. So that's from footwear. That's that's athletic wear you'll hear terms like at leisure. That's that's really not our, our. Sure focus it's it really is around those who are run, train, recover, and really the areas that we're focused on.

Steve Hamm: So you've got professional athletes and you've got a lot of amateur athletes who are buying the. 

Patrick Duroseau: For sure. Yes. Throughout that whole entire journey. I mean, the perfect is getting them while they're young and all the way up to become a professional or, you know, what those who like to get up everyday and work out, get up in the morning and go for that job, you know, 

Steve Hamm: [00:03:00] before you came on today, I was bragging about how I arrived the bicycle to the top of the mountain every morning, these days.

So feeling kind of proud of myself and I do have some under Armour items. So I'm on brand. 

Patrick Duroseau: Okay, thank you. We appreciate that. And I am one of those who myself ride a bike to nowhere and I actually enjoy it. 

Steve Hamm: Yeah, no. Oh, you did. You do a stationary bike? Yes. Wow. Okay. Well, great. So here we are. We're more than two years into this COVID 19 crisis and has had a tremendous impact on how people live their lives and on how.

Companies sell their products. So if you would describe how this has affected your company and how you're using data and analytics to deal with the challenges you faced. 

Patrick Duroseau: Yeah. I mean, a great question in the sense that if it was a jeopardy question, supply chain would be the answer, right? Like what is supply?

And, and just the fact that this whole concept of supply chain has come to the [00:04:00] forefront of everybody's mind, I think is fantastic and not unique to us. So that, that is where we are and really trying to. Work our way through the, the challenges that that COVID has brought with being able to not only produce, but deliver our products to our consumers.

I think the other thing that, that COVID actually probably brought to the forefront, not directly, but also as a result is the concept and the sustainability. So just really, how do we really draw a circle, clarity around our products as well, and ensure we know where they're being sourced from, how they're being sourced and everything else.

And to answer your question on a data and analytics. And really to drive efficiency and improve the operations of those things. It requires data. It really requires data. And receiving that data closer from our, our sourcing partners are our entire logistics and distribution all the way up to when we actually sell that product.

So data, data, and analytics is played a huge part in that entire life cycle. 

Steve Hamm: Yeah. Yeah. It seems like sharing data with your [00:05:00] partners either upstream or downstream is, has become absolutely critical because of COVID. Uh, a hundred 

Patrick Duroseau: percent as, and being able to share in a, in a more, I don't want to say real time, but in a more efficient and repeatable and scalable fashion, I think that's very important.

Steve Hamm: Yeah. So you're the VP of enterprise data management. I want to hear about your role in the company. I understand that you're a change maker and I wanted to know what changes are you making and the way the company uses technology. 

Patrick Duroseau: Um, I love change maker. Um, I don't, I don't know if I would own that, that brand, but I'll I'll, I'll take it.

Oh, well, I 

Steve Hamm: have it on authority from the snowflake, a sales person who deals with you. So you can't, you can't wriggle off the hook. All right. 

Patrick Duroseau: Okay. All right. There's a little bias there, but I'll take it. I mean, for, for me, I, I will take a VP of enterprise data management. Great. And as an organization, we cover what I'll call all things.

Data. Engineering analytics, [00:06:00] architecture, et cetera. But for me, the real thing that I really take up take pride in, I believe is I am the data evangelist. No, one's actually given me that title. So I'm actually going to create that one as well as changemaker, but really going out there and speaking and advocating for data and really driving that as part of our culture and our data literacy.

To me, that's really what my purpose in my role is. It's less about the bits and bytes of data. It's less. How we use it or when we use it, cause those are all important, but really is how do we actually elevate our culture and our literacy as an entire organization, outside of my domain of influence per se, but throughout the entire Underarmour, as an organization, 

Steve Hamm: Yeah.

So it sounds like what you're saying is, I mean, you, you, you supervise a certain core of people, but your job is really to convince everybody in the company, how important data is that they use it more aggressively. Sounds like, right? 

Patrick Duroseau: Yeah, exactly. And, and that's, that's, that's the measure of. Yeah. 

Steve Hamm: Cool. So I've been told that you're turning the approach to data processing when the [00:07:00] company pretty dramatically from being a decentralized data and analytics organization to a centralized one.

So why are you doing that? And how is it? 

Patrick Duroseau: I'd love to take credit for doing it alone. But I think the, the organization as a whole, a few years back, actually prior to prior to COVID realized that our ability to really drive data-driven decisions was impeded by the fact that we were decentralized, essentially, everyone.

Was operating in a siloed fashion and not for the greater good of, or really driving enterprise mindset. So I think when, when the collective leadership saw that there was a greater opportunity of starting over is probably the wrong word, but really consolidating the functions to a more centralized model and driving that culture from, from a core enterprise perspective.

We would probably gain a lot more efficiencies more forward. So I am given the opportunity, I should say, given the opportunity to lead and drive that, build this organization from scratch [00:08:00] and really build that structure. And it it's been great. It's been great because. Everyone wants to be more data-driven.

And I say that very explicitly, because I think everyone's data-driven in all organizations to some degree, it's a question of level of maturity or whether you use an Excel spreadsheet or you use some advanced automated tool, you can consider yourself a data-driven having a data-driven mindset. So for us, it was really.

Let's level set our baseline and accept where we are in our maturity. And then from there really create a vision and a roadmap to accelerate that, to move forward. So that's what I've been doing. And I've really created a framework around that to help drive us forward. 

Steve Hamm: Yeah. So in order to do this, people have to give up something, they have to give up control over their data, right.

I mean, is there kind of like, if you do that, then you get this reward, how do you, how do you sell them on the. Yeah, 

Patrick Duroseau: that's, that's a great, great point. Right? And, and for me, it's about a partnership. So it's a great lead into what I call our three [00:09:00] pillars. It's the typical triad, our people process technology, little spin on it with my three pillars, our data's at the core.

And if we really aligned that, we need to make proper decisions with the right data that we can trust in her accountability. There's there's one aspect of it. Then there is the second part of that is. We have the right governance around our data and we've all aligned. Cross-functionally on how to manage that governance and manage our data.

Then there, you're starting to build trust and leveraging that data so that there is not a separate version of the truth, no matter where you are. Right. But a truly unified version of truth. And the third part of that pillar for me using. Which I think is always the toughest part. And that's really, how do we get everyone to really come and really participate in the benefit of what we're doing as a true collaborative cross-functional and partners.

And when you get all three of those things together, that to be as the success or the definition of being truly data-driven is how you get all our data. Properly governed everyone participating in, [00:10:00] leveraging it together in a, in a trusted way to tell a story with the data that's that's where you get that buy-in because now people are all now going through the same are trying to achieve the same mission.

Steve Hamm: No, that's a, that's a great answer. I love the three pillars. Now you've been at under Armour for more than six years, several different roles. And previously he worked in the financial services industry. I know. So along the way in your career, what leadership lessons have you learned that are, that you're really putting into use?

Right. 

Patrick Duroseau: Now, you're not asking me my age. Are you? I hope you're not. No, that's 

Steve Hamm: not. That's not, um, it's not some secret way of defining your age. Now. You don't have to say how many other than the six years that you've been at under Armour, no more of your secrets will be released. 

Patrick Duroseau: All right. Thank you, Steve.

So I consider myself seasoned in the business environment and I've learned a number of things and I've been around a lot of different leaders [00:11:00] and I've seen a lot of different styles. And I think what I've adopted to or gravitated towards is that's really the concept of empathy and the team first, I guess, some real common parlance that's, that's really servant leadership, but ultimately it's, it's really that.

How do you actually lead by. How do we engage the team and elevate the team to be leaders? How do you make sure that you're not the smartest one in the room though? At times you may be the smartest one in the room and how do you really operate that way? And for me, that's, that's been the, the mantra I've been, I've always tried to operate in and I've always tried to really lead, help me lead the teams.

And I think it's served. Yeah. Yeah. 

Steve Hamm: And it seems like that kind of, I mean, what you're really talking about it in a sense is diplomacy and that is absolutely vital in the role that you're playing now, where you have to convince these different business units to play nice together and share data. So it seems like that's.

Patrick Duroseau: Yeah, I would [00:12:00] agree. One of the attributes of that is just being able to listen. So listening first is something I am a listener, so I will listen a lot longer aside from what we're doing right now, more than I speak, but it allows me to really just get a perspective and even formulate my thoughts. And as, as a self-proclaimed attested introvert, which I'm, I'm okay with.

I do process and I do collect data and I, I want to just understand it before speaking and not, and not just being, not just speaking, just to hear myself speak, but ultimately listening to perspectives and formulating an opinion. 

Steve Hamm: It's interesting. I've been involved in a bunch of organizations recently that are literally leaderless and it re it, it kind of makes you rethink what are we going to do at this meeting and all this kind of stuff.

And I think most organizations obviously. A lot more structured than that, but I think it's, it really gets you down to the basics of, of how you get along and how you [00:13:00] get stuff done. So I think you're doing some pretty interesting stuff there too. Okay. So I want to talk about the data cloud now, because one of the essentials of all that sharing and centralizing your doing is being able to put all the data up in the cloud and share it from there.

So when, and why did underarm. Begin moving into applications, the data of the cloud. And what's the status of that migration. Now, 

Patrick Duroseau: I think along with many in the last decade, 2000 tens, and again, I've been there, like you said, six years, the idea of moving to the cloud was one that everyone was starting to adopt more and it became more of a migration.

So, yeah. So when I started at the beginning of my tenure, there was a cloud first mentality and it was, it really was the mentality. Can we do this in the cloud and leverage all the benefits of scale, et cetera, that we could, we could drive versus, uh, billing things on premises. And we've, we've gone heavy, [00:14:00] just like most other organizations.

We're not a hundred percent there, but I would also argue, I don't think we'll ever be a hundred percent there. But we are still cloud-first in that mentality. We are looking for the benefits of that, the global scale that a cloud brings you and sensibility that it offers. But yeah, we've, we've done pretty well on that journey.

I think we're very happy with it. 

Steve Hamm: So cloud first means any new applications. It's born in the cloud is that 

Patrick Duroseau: cloud first is any new apple patient is born in the cloud. As we're going to revisit it. It's a ability to be born in the cloud because there may be a scenario where that's not possible, but yes, that's the intent.

So 

Steve Hamm: a lot of legacy stuff stays on premises, but maybe gradually you move it over when there's an 

Patrick Duroseau: opportunity. Exactly. So you start looking at things and in refresh or refactoring them to the cloud. It's not just stop dropping, roll, let's get everything to the cloud. It's we have to do it when it makes sense and how it makes sense.

Yeah. Yeah. 

Steve Hamm: Now the cloud is known for making things easy, but there [00:15:00] are challenges, right? I mean, what are the main challenges that is faced in 

Patrick Duroseau: this micro. I'll talk through challenges that I experienced in different roles to where we are even today. But the challenge of the cloud for me personally, has always been the concept.

If you, if I were starting a company day, one, it's very easy Greenfield. We'll just do it. Everything in the cloud, but most organizations are we'll call brownfield they're there. You have a legacy footprint that you need to address. So being able to move that. That expense from a financial accounting perspective, which typically is a sunk cost of sorts.

That's probably still on your books that your pitcher addressing and probably levels leverage some capital expenditure there to a now subscription-based operational expense. So getting your finance and accounting to really align with this new model has always been a challenge from that migration perspective.

And you're eventually able to do it, right. Accounting catches up and you're able to manage your way, but that, that is [00:16:00] a challenge. Needs to be accounted for that sometime is taken for granted because in simple terms, a CapEx and OPEX are two different budgets per se. Um, the they're just handled differently.

Steve Hamm: So right. As you make the shift, it can really have a huge impact on the financials. Right? 

Patrick Duroseau: Exactly. Exactly. So. It's just dealing with that. And, and, and not all applications are created equal. We may need more, more processing power. You may need more scalability. Burstability you may need retail with, with very specifics, peak seasons versus other times where, where we're not peak.

And so do I need as much computer not being able to dry, less scalability. So now I'm looking at resourcing talent that knows how to manage. The cloud capacity and scalability, et cetera, from a financial and resourcing perspective as well. So those, those are all, all things that really come into play.

When you look at that, 

Steve Hamm: now you have a partnership with snowflake, a commercial relationship there. [00:17:00] When and why did the company first engage with. 

Patrick Duroseau: To be honest, I learned about snowflake through this relationship. It was outside of my domain of expertise and responsibility specifically, and I know that it was a very specific use case in our marketing world where analytics was a key requirement and some of the tooling and technologies available at a time where we're not really servicing the needs.

And they were brought in for a very specific use. I participated on the peripheral, but did see the value that the teams were getting the time. But again, this was that when you mentioned the decentralized world, we lived in, it was like, it was, it was a team working to solve a problem, but didn't really have an organizational buy-in.

So that's how we started. 

Steve Hamm: All right. So let's drill down a little bit, Patrick, let's look at a couple of examples of how you're using the snowflake data platform because strategically and what kind of results. 

Patrick Duroseau: So for us, if we think about our intent [00:18:00] it's how do we going back to my three pillars, data governance, and engagement.

One of the first initiatives is how do we consolidate our data to a solid data platform to, to really provide enterprise scale accessibility, et cetera. So marketing was the first time. So, as I mentioned, and though in that siloed use case, we were able to refactor that into our new enterprise standard.

And that was easy for us because again, there was, there was learnings that we took and were really able to apply. And then it's a matter of now just extending that through the rest of our organization, whether it was in a supply chain, retail, et cetera. 

Steve Hamm: Now you mentioned before earlier about how you're using data.

So aggressively in transportation and logistics and stuff like that. How does stuff like play into that? What's what's the role that it plays? 

Patrick Duroseau: Well, one of the things that I, that I love about the platform itself is the whole concept of what it opens up for me outside of. Controlled domain and that's in [00:19:00] data sharing.

I think the power of data and analytics and the power of all the things that are available to us is the ability to get these third-party data sets, partner, data sets, and really be able to cross reference them with our, our own first party data and enterprise data sets. So data sharing has been something that's been top of mine in the, of.

Has been critical. So as we've worked through, we've been trying to find ways to data, share the low-hanging fruit and some of the first low hanging fruit that we've gone after is legit. Where we've had some, some of our major partners share data with us in a more dynamic, a streamlined fashion, which has translated into operational efficiencies for us from an organizational perspective, cost savings, dynamic reporting, et cetera.

But ultimately it's just driving that mission of how do we embed our data and analyze. Into the everyday uses with throughout our, through our organization and for our teammates, which, which makes them smarter and not spending time trying to do data acquisition and [00:20:00] then data curation, that's all happening through the platform initiated.

But through that data sharing, 

Steve Hamm: that's great. So we're living at a continuum here as technology progresses and our uses of data progressed. So what kind of advice do you have for Stoweflake about what new features or capabilities you'd like to see 

Patrick Duroseau: in the platform? I think like most organizations, you, you grow up in a space.

So for me, and understanding it. It's snowflake. It was a data warehouse to start off a very extensible one agnostic to the cloud services on top of that, which I think is fantastic. And then growing into truly a platform that can service all data. And I think the maturity of that is important. But when I say that, because for us, we're kind of on that same journey and data science to me is where that journey really meets.

And B being able to activate our data scientists, our advanced analytics folks in the [00:21:00] platform, uh, to, to be able to drive aggregate, draw insights from, from that is key. And today there are limitations. And no snowflake as an organization is improving on that, but there are some limitations in there. So the, for our native data scientists, I think that's an opportunity that that would really help drive some unlock capabilities.

So 

Steve Hamm: you're talking about like support for Python and stuff like that. Scala. Yeah, exactly. Okay, great. And I know that that's something that's still flake is introducing and strengthening almost by the day. So I think it sounds like that's the strategic thing. Everybody's like. 

Patrick Duroseau: Correct. I would agree 

Steve Hamm: with that.

Yeah. So beyond the Stoweflake relationship now, let's, let's look at the, uh, the, the environment of, of data management, data analytics technologies out there. What are the major data technology trends that you expect to emerge over the next year or so? It's, 

Patrick Duroseau: it's interesting because when I think about. Why are we [00:22:00] doing all of this?

We're not collecting data for the sake of collecting data. We're doing this to draw insights, to make better decisions, more informed decisions. Again, the concept of being a data driven or Jayda enabled culture environment. So, so for me, what I, what I really look forward to, and we see pieces of it coming, but not, not holistically, but really is that ability for anyone.

I, I always have a comment with my teammates. If our mom can understand that we're doing pretty good, right? Or I want to create a mom slide, which is what I call it. So the idea here is people should be able to ask questions of data in a very simplistic, natural language sense, and really be able to engage with that.

To, to draw the insights. And there's a lot of time today spent on acquiring data, transforming a data, and that's all heavy lifting that have it has to happen. But I really do see a future where a lot of that will be more managed through the AIML world and, [00:23:00] and more automated, but really the unlock of how do we get people to really engage with the data more seamlessly so that my CEO can literally.

Like he does with Amazon or Google and ask a question of the data, go order me a package. He can ask, how are we doing today in a very seamless way and not, not way that that's put together. Yeah. So, 

Steve Hamm: so really make the data accessible to the business manager and the business. Exactly. It seems like with Looker and Tableau and power BI and some of these other tools, that's, those are some big steps forward, but when it comes to data science, that stuff is not accessible to two regular people these days.

Right. I mean, is this, are you seeing trends towards. 

Patrick Duroseau: Yeah, and I think that's exactly it. So you have, you have technologies out there that, that are trying to, that offer the natural language processing way of engaging with the data sets that are available. It's, it's [00:24:00] really that next generation of maturity that I'm talking about.

And cause that's a lot of that is descriptive. And how do you get to the predictive version of that? And to some extent, which is really around a data science part of your brain, but, but it is the unlocking of that data in the very simplest form. That's, that's where it gets super powerful. 

Steve Hamm: Well, no, that sounds great.

I think we all want that, right, 

Patrick Duroseau: for sure.

Steve Hamm: Fascinating. This is 

Patrick Duroseau: what the future holds. 

Steve Hamm: So I'm going to ask you to put on your visionary cap for a second, looking out five years or more, what impact you expect data analytics to have on business and even on society? 

Patrick Duroseau: Wow. It really ties back to what we just talked about. It's the more accessible you make trusted.

Govern data, the more collaborative people can be because there isn't multiple versions [00:25:00] of the truth. The more I think efficient and productive will be. And I think that shows up in a lot of different ways. So going back to my original statement where we started sustainability, which if you care about the earth and what we're doing, the legacy that we leave behind that matters and the data that support.

It becomes more transparent and more clear to be able to, to achieve those kinds of things. So it's just, I think all these, all of these things are, it's great that we say that we're doing this for our shareholders, we're driving profitability, but at the end of the day, the difference that we make and we're able to make it goes a long way, then data driven.

Steve Hamm: Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, I think it goes back to something you said a minute ago about being able to predict, because what that's about is if I do this, if I make this decision that's likely to happen. So for able to make better decisions, businesses will be more efficient. Maybe they'll be more profitable, but in the broadest sense, the world will be operating [00:26:00] better.

It'll it'll work. 

Patrick Duroseau: Yes, exactly. And I believe that I believe that at the core as well. Yeah. That's a nice vision 

Steve Hamm: from the future 

Patrick Duroseau: for your information. There's a lot more to older. Some people thinking really need to dig deep and get to know the real you in the real up close and 

Steve Hamm: personal. So, Patrick, we typically close the podcast with something personally.

And I understand that your family came from Haiti and that you have some sense of social responsibility that you help with addressing social problems in Haiti. So if you tell us a little bit about your family background and what you're doing now, I think that would be a great way to close. 

Patrick Duroseau: I'd love to talk about this because it's, it is, it is who I am.

So my family I'm first-generation American from Haiti, as you stated, my I'm the youngest of 10, my parents and my siblings came over a couple of years before I was born. So I'm the only one born [00:27:00] in the states. But what it's what it's and we're S we still have family. In country throughout the U S all over really.

And what it's done for me is growing up here in America, through the American system, but also having roots in the Caribbean have allowed me to see just the dichotomy of life and, and understand that. That there's always a way there's always, when you see poverty, true poverty, which is heartbreaking where you see children with no clothes, working through garbage piles for food, you understand.

But yet every Sunday they get dressed to go to church. They go to school, they find the. It really gives you this perspective on life. That all the things that we do from work, et cetera, it's really not that serious. And really what we do for each other in the world that we leave behind and opportunities that we create for those is, is probably the most important.

So for me, I do feel a sense [00:28:00] of social responsibility. Haiti has been in the news. And not all for great things, but one thing I can say is it's a beautiful country with some of the best beaches in the world and some of the greatest resorts, et cetera, but you'll never know that because the news shows another side of it, which is all real too.

So I'm not denying that, but being someone who has the ability to fly in and out of that country, I get to see all sides of it. And when the earthquake happened in 2010, where I did lose family members there, I was on the ground. Earthquake happened on Tuesday. I was on the ground on Thursday because I wanted to go see my family and ensure that they were okay, but it also created a drive in me.

So I ended up starting a nonprofit at the time called hope lives, where it was around. How do we get things to the people who need them when they need them? And that was. What I'll call my measure of success extremely successful because there's so much engagement and that's been fantastic. And with the earthquakes and [00:29:00] all the political strife that's happened, the flooding earthquake that happened this past fall.

It was great to see. I wrote an open letter on LinkedIn Haskins. My friends to participate in help make a difference. And it was really just an open letter, open heart. And I was really happy and proud because literally within I gave a two week window because I was connected with another nonprofit organization who I knew can help.

From a logistics perspective, all the supplies in country, but within a two week window, we were able to raise over a hundred thousand dollars. We were able to get 90,000 products down in country, verify to people who actually needed them. And that was that I didn't ask for any more. Those were like w w we needed to get products down to country.

So that was fantastic. So I just feel an, I can go on forever about this stuff, and I won't, but I'll end it saying that it's something that if, if you, if you [00:30:00] wake up every morning and your purposes is, is not properly aligned with. Things that matter. And I don't mean going to work or anything else. It's making a difference in someone else's life.

Then you think you all need to reevaluate that. That's just kind of where I come from. 

Steve Hamm: Uh, Patrick, that's a beautiful thing. And it's clear that your values are so elemental to your life, your professional life. I mean, when you talked about leadership, servant leadership, having empathy, Being led with empathy and listening.

I think all those things are of a piece. And I hope that this is the kind of thing that people, that there's more and more success from this approach to, to careers and professions and businesses. And you do see it. And I I'd like to see more, but I'm really glad to see you. 

Patrick Duroseau: Thank you. Thank you so much.

Appreciate it. 

Producer: Join the world of data collaboration at snowflake summit. This June in Las Vegas at snowflake summit, you can learn from hundreds of [00:31:00] technical data and business experts about what's possible in the data cloud. Learn more and register for snowflake summit at www.snowflake.com/summit.