In this episode, Moin Haque, SVP of Architecture and Engineering, and Vlad Barkov, VP of Data Architecture & Engineering at Warner Music Group, discuss the transformation of the music industry during the pandemic, choosing the right business partners, making data independent, and much more.
In this episode, Moin Haque, SVP of Architecture and Engineering, and Vlad Barkov, VP of Data Architecture & Engineering at Warner Music Group, discuss the transformation of the music industry during the pandemic, choosing the right business partners, making data independent, and much more.
--------
How you approach data will define what’s possible for your organization. Data engineers, data scientists, application developers, and a host of other data professionals who depend on the Snowflake Data Cloud continue to thrive thanks to a decade of technology breakthroughs. But that journey is only the beginning.
Attend Snowflake Summit 2023 in Las Vegas June 26-29 to learn how to access, build, and monetize data, tools, models, and applications in ways that were previously unimaginable. Enable seamless alignment and collaboration across these crucial functions in the Data Cloud to transform nearly every aspect of your organization.
Learn more and register at www.snowflake.com/summit
[00:00:00] RODC043 - Steve Hamm: Hey, it's great to see you guys today is great to have you on this is the first time we've had two people on our podcast, so I'm expecting it to be twice as good as usual. So today Moin, it is good to have you.
RODC043 - Moin Haque: I guess it's a pleasure to be here, really looking forward to it.
RODC043 - Steve Hamm: Yeah. And I'm glad you as well.
RODC043 - Vladimir Barkov: same. Thank you for having me. And , uh, it really is great to be here.
RODC043 - Steve Hamm: now Warner music group is one of the giants of the music industry. So most of our listeners are aware of it, but it would be helpful if you would talk a little bit more about Warner music group itself, what are , what, what, what are the pieces of the business? How does it work?
RODC043 - Moin Haque: Sure. So what our music group , it's, it's basically a very iconic and what I'd say, a dynamic collection of brands know, even, I didn't realize that the legacy goes back nearly two centuries and the, the, the presence of the company today exists in nearly every genre of music. And it also extends in nearly every region on the planet.
Uh, but we're basically comprised of [00:01:00] two primary businesses. The first is recorded music. Which focuses on the production promotion and, and, and the distribution of music from artists and creators. And the second part of the, of the company is music publishing and music publishing represents songwriters, composers, essentially helping them in the promotion and what we call the licensing of their works across the marketplace.
Uh, now some of our core labels, you may be familiar with there. Their names such as Atlantic Electra Parlophone and Warner records itself. But there's also several celebrated brands that exist alongside that. Some, some of which such as reprise, sire, and rhino, these have been a part of my life soundtrack since I first.
Got a record player back in the seventies , um, with the music business as a whole, it's rather complex. It's the kind of stuff that you think of PowerPoint nightmares are made of. Um, but it's, it's important to, to really use the appropriate lens through which to observe the music landscape and try to look at it as a whole.
So if you think from an [00:02:00] artist perspective, It's about creating and connecting. And then for many of us as consumers, it's about how do I discover this music? How do I experience this music and everything in between? Uh, Sort of really helps facilitate and sometimes impedes all the processes that are involved from writing and producing the music to distributing it in all of its now ever changing forms.
Um, and distribution today is really the primary source that, that we're all most familiar with. You likely consume more music via streaming than you do downloading. Although I personally still like the lean back model and find the right vinyl LP in my collection. But, but primarily people are consuming through distribution and downloading is really starting to go away as a, as a format.
And then the other big component I'd say in the landscape is what we call licensing and sync services. That's a major component. Um, it's not what a lot of consumers think about. But imagine watching your favorite TV shows or films without the advent of music [00:03:00] know whether it's a memorable theme song.
Pretty much all the eighties sitcoms songs are burned in my brain. Um, or it's some kind of montage in a film, the licensing SIG , uh, services. These are the services that help songwriters and artists. Monetize their work across and into so many of these different forms of media that I mentioned. And today we're seeing this distribution and licensing growth turn more and more into other forms.
The two key ones we've been tracking or III gaming. Um, which is where, you know, gaming itself has soundtrack has music, but we're seeing a stronger growth in that space. Fitness is another one you think of if you've been at the gym and you've experienced it in a, in a larger setting versus in a more personalized way through a Peloton , um, that's licensing and sync services that bring that music and, and there's other passive and an immersive media formats that are.
Emerging over time. Um, you know, even, I don't know if they do this anymore, but if you think back there was time when grocery stores played music. Um, I don't know if they still do that anymore , but, but all of that sort of distribution is also something [00:04:00] that that's part of the landscape. And then the other key thing is, you know, the, the whole idea of, of live entertainment.
You know, it's something that has been there throughout my lifetime and sadly, not so much lately, but concerts, festivals, and clubs, the mechanics of producing these live shows, promoting them and supporting them that that's a material part of this ecosystem. Um,
RODC043 - Steve Hamm: You know, you've done a great job describing the music industry, very complicated, lots of factors, lots of facets.
It's in the midst of this massive shift. Well, in fact , it's, it's in, it's in the midst of several shifts at the same time, which you've described. Uh, and also at the same time, we've got the COVID crisis, which has stopped performances and hopefully. Right right about now they're going to start up again, but, so how is Warner music dealing with all these pressures and what does strategy for going forward?
RODC043 - Moin Haque: and it's, it's a great question. It really has been somewhat of an extraordinary and for many of us, an unprecedented year in [00:05:00] so many dimensions and we're, we've all been challenged and professional and more importantly in personal ways that have impacted. Our our day to day. Uh, what we're seeing is that throughout all this music is continuing to be a core part of everyone's lives.
The numbers are showing that music consumption is actually up and, you know, people are finding a way to transcend a lot of these impediments and make the right adjustments that, that the pen, the pandemic is warranted. However engagement is where we're seeing a lot of the , uh, uh, Adaptation or engagements where we're seeing a lot of the adoption, how we create, how we connect, how we experience has all transformed this past year.
Um, as I mentioned before, the music ecosystem is pretty diverse in how it distributes and disrupts as a whole. But the reality that's sort of been surfaced is through all of this. We're, we're all in the same storm, but we're not in the same boat and we've had to adapt. Two things such as a lack of life performances.
Even those behaviors are shifting. We have to find new opportunities for artists to be able to [00:06:00] engage with consumers. As I mentioned earlier, e-gaming and fitness, they continue to be a growing channel for music. And recently we've made announcements around investing in virtual and immersive experiences , uh, as a way to engage consumers again, the key theme you're going to hear.
It's. Bringing it back to engagement and experience, not so much the how and where , um, and
RODC043 - Steve Hamm: Go ahead. Go ahead. I'm sorry. I interrupted you
RODC043 - Moin Haque: No, sorry. Go ahead.
RODC043 - Steve Hamm: when you were talking about virtual. You're talking about like performances that are on, you know, like zoom or something like that.
RODC043 - Moin Haque: Yeah. I mean, not so much zoom buts, but similar experiences that are more immersive recently announced a partnership with a company called wave , uh, that helps drive some of these virtual experiences, which are essentially concerts. You've probably heard other things over the past year, how concerts are being held in gaming platforms like fortnight and there's live streaming that's happening there.
So, you know, people are finding different ways to try to replicate that experience of it being collaborative, immersive. And somewhat live. And so in similar ways, everyone in the industry is making these adjustments from, from artists [00:07:00] to the listeners themselves.
RODC043 - Steve Hamm: Now in some ways we're starting to get back to normal because of COVID. Do you think, do you expect these other kind of alternative ways of experiencing things to continue and expand, or will they kind of fade as COVID fades?
RODC043 - Moin Haque: No, I think they'll continue to expect band, you know, th th we're not , um, we're not looking to use the term re returning back or going back to normal, because I think it's, it's a new normal that we're going to, it's going forward into a new normal, and that new normal will have some of the things that come back such as live concerts.
I mean, we're looking forward. To those returning, but I think a lot of the newer forms of consumption are also going to remain and continue to grow , uh, because through the pandemic and through this past year, I'm sure we've all experienced. The shift has made certain things work better than others. And you almost don't want to give up things that now do work better and go back to just the way things were before.
So I think people who have discovered some of these new platforms are going to continue to [00:08:00] want to experience those as well.
RODC043 - Steve Hamm: Yeah. Yeah, no, you've done a really fantastic job of describing the, the dynamics of the business and, and Warner music's role in it. Uh, talk about technology and data now, how are you using data and technology to support the company's mission strategies and, and also deal with some of these stresses?
RODC043 - Moin Haque: Sure. As we were talking earlier and seeing the shift that's happening in consumption and distribution, we're seeing the shift of when it came to music, things were when and where to this idea of things can be everywhere in every win and streaming services. Other forms of digital distribution consumption they've really allowed us to do.
To sort of disintermediate from traditional channels, as well as, you know, the ability to provide not just personalization, but what we call hyper personalization and relevancy and ultimately context back to our consumers. And so, you know, as I made the comment of us, all of us being in the same storm data and [00:09:00] technology are turning out to be crucial.
And in helping us navigate these shifting and turbulent waters. One of the things we're striving for in the company is to really treat data as an enterprise currency. It's not something that's just a measure or a metric for a process, but really becomes a living currency in the company that can help.
Drive opportunity and all forms of monetization, not just commerce, but the ability to take these signals and be better informed with them and understand how we're going to create new products and services, how we're going to uncover new opportunities. Data historically has been sort of vouchsafed in, in, in platforms and systems.
And we're really trying to drive to a point where that becomes sort of separated out and becomes its own sort of sick set set of signals. That are available to drive the company forward. The term we use internally is this idea of a data fabric. And this fabric is something that weaves through our processes and our domains, and sort of flips the [00:10:00] script of traditional approach.
You know, when, when, when we joined here over a year ago, we found this pattern where. Applications, we're S we're, we're sort of leading. You would hear people talk, they'd use the names of systems or the acronyms of systems. And you realize that business processes and domains were subordinated to applications.
And we realized that that's really not how we're going to be able to be nimble, be agile and be responsive. We want to flip that script. And so this paradigm of a data fabric and larger than that, the idea of the service fabric, the goal is to start to break these. These sort of modulates and, and boundaries apart and, and really let the business process and domain flourish as it should, and be organic and be responsive to the market as naturally as it can.
RODC043 - Steve Hamm: So when you're talking about breaking the barriers, is that between the business units and between functions or is it, I mean, literally all across those things, right?
RODC043 - Moin Haque: All across mean you don't want people to [00:11:00] define themselves by I work on this application or I work in this system, but really go back to understanding what is your role in the larger organization and ecosystem. And it's not about the software. It's not about the technology that you should be governed by.
It's about the business process itself.
RODC043 - Steve Hamm: gotcha. Gotcha. Now I understand that Warner music is building a new, a new business advertising. Um, really that's really fascinating. So talk about that. Why, why is that coming along and what are the new opportunities and data analytics that, that creates.
RODC043 - Moin Haque: Sure. Well, I mean, we are not really, you know, people don't think of us as a direct to consumer brand because most of the music you're consuming, you're likely consuming from streaming services that are out there. But we do have direct engagement because one of the core components in music is fan engagement.
And to some extent that engagement. Can be merchandising. It can be monetized, but fans and artists do look for that connection. And we facilitate a lot of that through consumer experiences, whether it's websites, [00:12:00] applications, things that are specific to genres or around specific events. And since there are monetization opportunities here, there potentially are opportunities to engage advertisers and agencies.
In that connection as well. You know, how, how do we identify the right audiences? How do we expose audiences to other opportunities and brands? And that's where Aztec can, can become a great facilitator and really allow us to make, again, that experience personalized and relevant.
RODC043 - Steve Hamm: that's really cool. So the two of you came over to Warner about a year ago. You were both at NBC universal. It was almost like a package deal. So if you would, and lad, finally, you get your chance to speak. If you would talk about, you know, why you came over for mourner and your roles here, and the goals here.
RODC043 - Vladimir Barkov: sure. So let me just start at the very top of this with , um, You know, as, as you progress through your career, you meet people , uh, that you connect with on a very deep level. And , um, those [00:13:00] relationships , uh, you know, they span the boundary of both professional and personal and. You develop , um, this concept of a team , uh, that, that no longer is, is attached to an employer.
Uh, and that's the case here. Um, so more than I met , uh, back , uh, at a previous employer and , uh, we just connected , um, when , uh, Moyne came over to , uh, to WMG. Um, he had an opening , uh, asked me if I would like to join him. And of course I jumped at the chance. Um, and this is, you know, this is an important part of , um, Of our careers because , uh, he's coming in to a new organization and he has to, to establish , uh, uh, trust and relationships.
And when he brought me in , um, that's already there day one. Right. I come in and I can sing his song. Um, and I have his back and that's really important, especially now during the times that , um, that we're all , uh, you know, living in , uh, because both of us started fully remote. Uh, we've never been, you know, [00:14:00] in the office , um, from a, a, a , uh, a work perspective and. And developing that trust and developing those relationships , um, with people that, you know, you've never had the opportunity of really meeting face to face , uh, you know, it can be sometimes really difficult. Um, And this is more than just , um, you know, th th you know, this goes down, right. So Moyne brought me in , uh, and then I have people that I've brought in as well.
Um, and one of these people in, in particular , um, Is a gentlemen , uh, named MuTu who has been with me. Uh, we've had the pleasure of working with each other , um, across three employers and over the past , uh, I think 12 years. Um, so. So some of these relationships go go really deep and you find yourself in, in this position where you have a team , uh, that just works.
Uh, and it works really well. Uh, you don't have to explain things , uh, you don't have to , um, Uh, spell everything out. Um, you know, J you know, just like Moines has , uh, has , uh, uh, his daily , uh, his data leader in me , uh, where I was effective, as soon as I started , uh, within my data organization. [00:15:00] I also have , uh, certain , uh, you know, leaders that were effective as soon as I brought them in.
Okay.
RODC043 - Steve Hamm: Yeah. Yeah. It really is interesting to see, to think about, you know, how you guys came in in the midst of this crisis just about, and it was the fact that you came in as a team, made it much easier for you guys to establish yourselves and, you know, and get going quickly. I'm sure. So, uh, that was really smart.
Now over the course of your careers. You both work for a lot of different places. You've been a lot of different situations and, and it seems like American business has been in the middle of one kind of transformation or another as, for as long as I can remember. So what, what have you guys learned about the role of technology in enabling some of these major business transitions and, and how are you applying those lessons now?
RODC043 - Vladimir Barkov: Uh, I think to start it's, it's important to kind point out that , uh, that, that technology is not just an enabler. Um, A lot of times it's also the driver. Uh, you know, just look how, how, [00:16:00] how digital has transformed , uh, media and entertainment consumption. Um, you know, and when you touched on the, on , uh, on this previously , uh, technology as an enabler is seeing a shift towards.
A service-based model. Um, building infrastructure and capability is expensive and time consuming , uh, where we all need to be nimble and agile when reacting to transition. Um, so you want to structure your technology solutions away from , uh, uh, bespoke architectures , um, and solutions and towards. Reusable and extensible patterns , uh, and frameworks.
Um, that way, you know, as there is a transition, you're able to respond very quickly , uh, to the needs of the business and S and supporting it through the, through the transition.
RODC043 - Steve Hamm: and why did, did you have something to that?
RODC043 - Moin Haque: Yes. Yeah. I think lots point on patterns is, is key. You know, that's something we were constantly striving for here, but I think the other piece I want to add as well as context and context is something that's been [00:17:00] key and, you know, suffice it to say it's where we need to always align ourselves. When it comes to the concepts of technology, data and, and engineering, these are not independent tracks or disciplines, but they're really related and they should be aligned.
And what I've sort seen work for myself in the past is to take a look at technology within an enterprise and put it into two buckets, undifferentiated. And differentiated. And to me, undifferentiated are technologies and platforms that are not necessarily driving the business forward. Rather they're providing foundational or commoditize capabilities.
You think of CRM platforms, content, asset management, even data warehouse technology, to some extent. This isn't where we should be investing our engineering strength, rather it's where we should be partnering with the right partners with the relevant partners. And when you choose the right partners, you also have to be aware that there's this term.
I use it. You're essentially creating a D a displacement effect. So if I bring in a particular CRM ecosystem, how am I [00:18:00] displacing all the other technologies? And I need to do it in a way where I'm cognizant of that. Because I want to drive interoperability. I want to drive some level of between platforms differentiated is really where we need to drive our investment.
These are the technologies that are really going to help distinguish and drive our brands in the marketplace in a landscape. And the more we focus on that and really use that to Veloce point earlier about enablement and driver and, you know, that's where I've seen a lot of the value come from.
RODC043 - Steve Hamm: Now Ralph Munson is Warner music's CIO. And I know that, you know, in the old days, you know, CEO's were kind of like, They, they did the bidding of, of the other leaders in the corporation, very often the CEO and things like that. But you just see a lot more dynamism, a lot more leadership and strategic leadership these days.
So if you would talk about him, his style of leadership and what it's like working with him,
RODC043 - Moin Haque: sure. Um, [00:19:00] so Ralph is, is, is really a very, you know, the term of use dynamic leader is a really great fit and describing him. And for me personally, one of the strongest drivers in my consideration to join Warner music group was the ability to work with Ralph. He possesses a balance of technology and business, and he really understands.
How technology differentiates, how it enables, how it empowers. He comes from a technology background himself, which is not common for a lot of CEOs. Some of them are coming from F from different disciplines that are equally important, finance, operations, and so forth. But he comes from a core technology background.
I mean, he, you may not be aware of this, but he actually built iHeartRadio and. Yeah. And, and you know, the nice thing about that is he knows the art of the possible, and that changes the conversation that you can have with him as, as his director, but also the conversation that he can have with his peers.
And to be able to talk with a leader who essentially gets it knows what can and can't happen. But can also [00:20:00] drive technology as a differentiator in strategic conversations. He's having with senior leadership with the C-suite with our boards. I think that that kind of connection and alignment has, has been really great working with him.
Um, because there's, there's, there's a sense that there's empathy from his part and knowing what we're trying to do because he gets it. But ultimately he can then take that and then drive that in a language that makes sense to the leadership of the company.
RODC043 - Steve Hamm: Yeah. Now you guys have been there about a year and the company engaged with snowflake before that. But I think it'd be really helpful if you'd explain, you know, kind of what the initial engagement was like and then how you two have come in and change the data strategy. Yeah.
RODC043 - Vladimir Barkov: Oh, I'd love to talk about this. Um, so my, my relationship with snowflake , uh, goes back , uh, quite far too, I believe Right. before they were. Uh, generally available , uh, in that , um, there was an N an individual within the organization that had previously worked with me and, you know, asked me to get on the [00:21:00] phone with , um, one of the product people and , uh, you know, kick some things around, see what I thought of the product, if I had any ideas , um, for , um, you know, how, how they can make their product better.
And this is , uh, uh, a relationship that, you know, has continued to this day. Um, So. It obviously eventually turned into more of a customer relationship , uh, me being a customer of a snowflake. Um, but I think that the deep , uh, the deep engagement and experience that I have with snowflake , um, when I brought that into , uh, Uh, WMG.
I, you know, I like to think that , uh, what we did was expand , uh, our partnership with snowflake and how we use snowflake from being just another cloud database , um, to driving the vast majority of our data strategy.
RODC043 - Steve Hamm: Right. So. Warner music had a relationship with snowflake and you personally had a relationship with a company that was, it was really kind of deep from, from [00:22:00] the very early days. That was interesting. I didn't realize that. So how have, you know, talk a little bit more detail about how you're using these technologies differently now than, you know, what , when, when Warner music first adopt, it's not like
RODC043 - Vladimir Barkov: sure. So we've , um, we've introduced , uh, this concept , uh, you know, and this is just branding , uh, of an enterprise data asset. Um, and you know, that, that , um, that attribute , uh, of data , uh, Allowed us to free it from the silo where it currently resided. So any data asset, which has a value to more than just one area of the business or, or more than, than one application , um, we are essentially landing it into a corporate level snowflake account.
Uh, and again, you know, the that's just said , uh, A designation. It doesn't mean anything from, from a snowflake perspective. Um, but from there, from our corporate account , uh, that data asset is published out into our private data exchange and [00:23:00] the data exchange , uh, enables , uh, uh, other snowflake accounts within our organization.
Uh, be they , um, uh, Uh, you know, associated with an application or maybe sometimes an entire area of the business, like a label , um, they can come into this data exchange and they can subscribe to this data asset. so it's a model of , uh, Uh, of land once and use many , um, and all of this is happening without any kind of data , uh, you know, data replications.
So the latencies are as, you know, as short as, as we can possibly make them because we aren't having to replicate data all over the place. Um,
RODC043 - Steve Hamm: you just have one, basically one copy of everything.
RODC043 - Vladimir Barkov: That's Right. It's, it's, it's one copy used many times. Uh, and it's landed only once. Um, there were some data assets. We found that , uh, different area , uh, areas of the business were each , uh, uh, capturing and ingesting , um, those data assets , uh, uh, as a bespoke solution.
And that of course is a duplicative [00:24:00] effort.
RODC043 - Steve Hamm: right? No, you've got a strategy called data lab. So explain that.
RODC043 - Vladimir Barkov: sure. So coming back to our model of the data exchange, we have , um, uh, uh, a class of users who are data scientist and very advanced , uh, you know, data analysts. So. The type of workload that. they introduce is more , um, of a discovery model. Um, you know, so keeping in mind what I just said about our, our data exchange, we have a snowflake account called data lab.
And within this data lab account, it's exactly what it sounds like. It's a laboratory. Um, we have , uh, you know, our, our data sciences now on our analysts are in this account , um, subscribing to all of our data , uh, assets , uh, you know, enterprise data assets. They're also bringing their own data as a data assets to data lab.
Uh, and they're looking for value.
RODC043 - Steve Hamm: no. Do you mean like third party data that they're bringing in or? Okay. All
RODC043 - Vladimir Barkov: right. So think of like, uh, you know, uh, uh, weather data, right. Uh, [00:25:00] do weather patterns have had an impact on, on the , uh, you know, listening , um, behaviors. Uh, so as they are discovering and experimenting and finding value with both our current data assets, as well as any new data assets coming in , uh, They are re-engaging with us , uh, to turn , um, to turn their, their discoveries into production solutions that we can then publish out to the data exchange once again. So it's not just a model of , uh, Of publishing , uh, uh, you know, raw data. Uh, we're also publishing , uh, uh, enrichments that, that we are developing in-house to those data assets.
RODC043 - Steve Hamm: So any of the business units functions, they can, they can look at those things. They can, they can pick it up and essentially quote, buy it just like they could any other data that's within the enterprise. Right.
RODC043 - Vladimir Barkov: that's Right. And, and , uh, you know, as I was, I was alluding to it's, it's a two-way relationship. They're not only subscribing, but they have the capability to publish as well.
RODC043 - Steve Hamm: That's really cool [00:26:00] Vlad. I'm going to ask you to kind of continue with this. You're talking about kind of really hot stuff you're doing right now. So what about the future? What are the major trends in the data cloud technology and also any kind of data management stuff that you're keeping an eye on over the next year?
RODC043 - Vladimir Barkov: The name of the game is going to be the ability to scale quickly and cost-effectively, and this is where I think snowflake , um, You know, really adds value for us. Um, I don't want to be in, in the infrastructure business. Uh it's it's not core to our business. Uh, I think that the money. Is is better spent on building product and building services , um, and the monetization of those products and services rather than , uh, you know, spending it on, on, on keeping infrastructure going.
So. So solutions that are cloud native that are server-less. Um, and that are service-based I think are the future. Um, and especially if you look at , uh, uh, fixed , uh, infrastructure , uh, you know, [00:27:00] deployments, they can only handle X amount , uh, of data. Um, And scaling that infrastructure is usually time consuming and expensive.
Um, and you look at, at a cloud native approach that auto scales as you need it and does so most of the time , um, with, with very little , uh, you know, latency, I think that's the future.
RODC043 - Steve Hamm: um, You mentioned serverless computing and I'm sure a lot of the technology people are listening know exactly what that is, but there may be some people who don't get that. And I know that that's a very, that's a really key concept these days. So could you explain that a little bit?
RODC043 - Vladimir Barkov: Sure. And, and, and it does , um, also overlap with a service-based , uh, you know, uh, uh, uh, model where you're partnering with somebody that is abstracting away from you, the fact that there's hardware your processes. Right? So in an ideal world , um, let's say you develop , uh, a program , um, Traditionally, you would take this program.
You, you would put on a server and it would run on the server in a [00:28:00] serverless model. Um, you are deploying your code. Um, Not on the server, but rather through a service where you may select, you know, I need this much memory. I need this much disc space. I need this much CPU. Okay. Go run. Right. And all of the things that you normally have to deal with when it comes to , uh, you know, running infrastructure, such as patching security, firewalls, that's all handled for you or, or most of it is handled for you and abstract that away from you.
And again , it's, it's a, it's about being able to , um, to there to direct your spending to the places where it adds the most value for your business.
RODC043 - Steve Hamm: no, that makes a lot of sense. Now I want to turn to you again. Um, so I'm going to ask you to put your visionary cap on for a minute. Please look out like five years into the future or so. And how do you expect the data cloud and data analytics [00:29:00] to affect businesses and society? Not just the music business, but let's go broad on this.
And even, even to society, what do you expect to happen here?
RODC043 - Moin Haque: Uh, these are always the tough questions, right? Because yeah. If I knew what I was going to say five years ago, compared to where we are today. Um, I
RODC043 - Steve Hamm: Well, we, we won't check back on
RODC043 - Moin Haque: we'll joke back. Excellent.
RODC043 - Steve Hamm: you're safe.
RODC043 - Moin Haque: Excellent. So I think just building on what sort of laud was saying, you know, taking that a little further. I think one of the things we're seeing today and we'll hopefully see, continue in the coming years is this idea of exchanges that are built around data.
And I mentioned before that the music is a global ecosystem. You've got labels, distributors, partners, and of course, creators and consumers. But as with Mo as, and as with most businesses, you're part of larger ecosystems. So there's a trajectory towards taking technology and data and scaling these relationships between partners, vendors, and ultimately creators and consumers to do so.
Making data independent, somewhat self-aware and [00:30:00] interoperable is going to. Be a continuing shift that we see a focus on, you know, content itself. Similarly is becoming more and more multi-platform much like audiences today are more and more comprised of digital natives they're audiences that are also digitally.
Ambidextrous, if you will. And so you have a fragmentation of consumption that's happening, that warrants a lot greater capacity and capability to meet these audiences, not just everywhere, which is kind of what we can do today with streaming, but also every when and somewhat every house. Depending on how that consumption is going to happen.
So to do this, we need to ultimately get to a point where the concept of a semantic exchange is possible without the need to always move data from point to point, not having the sort of replication model, but rather discover and share data in, in an ephemeral sense and also support multiple dialects.
Not just SQL, but dialects that work for persons for, for services, systems, sensors, even autonomous [00:31:00] agents think of, sort of what's what search has done for discovery over the past several years. That's sort of where data signals need to get to in the coming years. And a lot of this has been enabled. In the past from us being able to transcend storage, we've been able to transcend compute.
I think the next thing we're looking to transcend is the idea of network to transcend latencies, to actually be able to say, I can get all this done in a spatially unrestricted context. I don't have to be adjacent. I can be sort of wherever I am and inter operate between companies between partners and, and allow these data signals.
To really be independent , um, and not to sound too corny, but I personally feel that that what we call ETL today will mean something very different in the future. You know, today it's a term we use in data. It stands for extract transform and load. But where I see the promise of data cloud taking us is an ETL that really ends up standing for empower, transform, and liberate. [00:32:00]
And, and that's really the hope I have for the coming years.
RODC043 - Steve Hamm: Yeah, that's really great. So I just want to clarify, make sure I understand. So you guys have a private debt exchange now , but, but, but you envision the future really being, participating in public, even kind of industry-wide data exchanges. Is that what you're talking.
RODC043 - Moin Haque: Yes. I think that would be ideal because the, the exchange really acknowledges the importance of sharing data it's happening anyway today. And in many ways , it's, it's, it's a , uh, it's a burden on companies because if I need to share data with a distributor, I need to package it up. I need to ship it to them.
They need to unpackage it and then consume it and use it. And this, this sort of repeat rinse and repeat process creates all kinds of latencies and impediments. We think exchanges are really going to facilitate that in an exchanges that are semantically focused, where it's about how the data is relevant and how it needs to be used are going to be critical.
RODC043 - Steve Hamm: Yeah, no, you said some. Go ahead.
RODC043 - Vladimir Barkov: sorry, I just, I just wanted [00:33:00] to add some, some things to that. Um, So I just want to make it clear, like right now, when we engage our data partners , um, on either side, either , uh, a partner, we want to get data from, or maybe a partner that we may want to send data to. We're always asking the question.
Um, are you on any kind of a data exchange because we're always looking to simplify. Our own internal pipelines so that we don't have to replicate data, not only internally, but externally as well. Um, it's, you know, it, it costs money to develop these interfaces, a cost money, ongoing to support these interfaces and it costs money to replicate data.
Uh, so when it is avoidable , uh, I think it's in everybody's best interest to avoid it.
RODC043 - Steve Hamm: No, no, that's interesting and more. And you said something else that really intrigued me. You said that in the future data will be self-aware and that is that's pretty intriguing, but [00:34:00] I don't really understand it. So what do you mean by that?
RODC043 - Moin Haque: Sure. So self-aware in a few ways. One is that today data alone is not sufficient. You have to have metadata. That goes with it. So you already have sort of a payload of two different things , um, self-aware or even consider self-describing as the idea that if I share a data signal with you, it is sufficient in the way or shape it is without me needing to send you additional details, whether it's metadata, whether it's additional context and that it can serve sort of on its own, to inter-operate with whatever systems or processes exist in your domain.
Um, that's something we don't have today. Data cannot exist on its own, right. Data is essentially a noun. It needs to be described and operated upon, but a future where data is the verb , um, is where that self-awareness becomes something that's key. I'd love to get more specific on it. And if I knew what it's going to be five years from now, we'd be having a different [00:35:00] conversation.
But, but I think that that , that, that that's something that needs to transcend , um,
RODC043 - Steve Hamm: oh, that's interesting. So, you know, you know what the direction needs to be, but you don't know where the, where the blazes are going to be on the trees. That's fine. Yeah. Hey, you know, we, we typically end on a kind of a fun note and, and I, I, I understand that you, both of you, you just share a love for cars.
So if you could tell us about that, I mean, what, you know, what kind of cars you love and, and to what extent do you take these things?
RODC043 - Moin Haque: So, uh, well, I'll go first for me. Um, you know, I, I think not a day goes by that. I don't find myself cruising car sites. Sure. Uh, Ralph doesn't want to hear this, but we're, we're on various car sites throughout the day, sharing links with each other, but I've always been drawn to these machines and I have somewhat of an unhealthy.
An unhealthy passion for sobs, specifically the loss of which I, I still feel to this day. Um, but I think what I've always liked about cars, it's kind of this juxtaposition of journey and destination, and that the car exemplifies right. You know, automobiles, like many, like things are truly connected [00:36:00] device.
And Rhonda talking about. Mobile devices or Bluetooth. I'm talking about, there's a particular solace for me when you're in the right car, it helps blur the distinction between journey and destination, and you're sort of holistically aligned in that moment. It's meditative, it's restorative in all aspects , uh, with the car become a sort of a guided meditation for me.
RODC043 - Steve Hamm: Oh, that's funny. You're starting to sound like a Matthew McConaughey Lincoln
RODC043 - Moin Haque: there you go. Sort of, I would do it for subs.
RODC043 - Steve Hamm: Yeah. And fled. How about you? What's your passion?
RODC043 - Vladimir Barkov: Uh, I think that , uh, somewhere in another life, alternate universe, I was probably, or am probably a car mechanic. Um, I tend to , um, I T I tend to gravitate towards doing things with my hands. I think it's, you know, it kind of goes with the nature of my career where , um, What we create is , um, completely digital.
Um, and , uh, you know, it hit delete and it's gone versus [00:37:00] things like, you know, working on cars. It's, it's, it's a physical , uh, you know, tactile , uh, activity. Um, and I really crave that experience. Um, you know, not to mention that when I was a teenager , uh, there was a. A person I met with a 1970 , uh, Dodge duster. Um, was it Dodge No Plymouth, Plymouth, duster, excuse me. And,
RODC043 - Steve Hamm: dart, Plymouth duster.
RODC043 - Vladimir Barkov: that's right. Um, And, you know, I must've been, I think, 12 at the time, 13 at the time. Um, and if I remember it was, it was a 360 , uh, and , uh, I got to witness , um, a real seventies muscle car burnout. Um, and from that point I was hooked , uh, so much so that later on in my teens , um, I had the , uh, 74 Dodge charger se.
That had , uh, a four 40 transplanted from , uh, I think a Coronet , um, that I enjoyed for a couple of years before it was stolen , uh, and, and never to be found. Um, and, and so that kind of continued , um, you know, uh, My, my previous love was a 2003 Acura cl type S, which is not like, you know, uh, not, not a typical [00:38:00] enthusiastic car, but , um, but it, you know, nobody touched that car.
Uh, you know, besides me for , uh, how long did I own it? 12 years.
RODC043 - Steve Hamm: Yeah.
RODC043 - Vladimir Barkov: 12 years, 12, 12 to 13 years. Um, that car was mine. Uh, only I touched it. Um, it was very heavily modified. Um, and , uh, I just loved, I absolutely loved it. Um, and they actually ended up selling it to my neighbor because his son loved that car so much and wanted that car.
Um, and he's still driving it now.
RODC043 - Steve Hamm: kindred spirits. Right, Yeah, that's cool. the last thing I wanted to mention is, you know, when I think back on the, the music industry, I think, you know, Late 1990s, early thousands, an industry, very defensive on it back on its heels.
And now, you know, the way you've described Warner music today and the kind of stuff you're doing, you know, you guys have you've switched, flip the switch or flip the script. That's what it is. Flip the script. And you're really innovating and taking the industry to new places and not kind of like [00:39:00] retreating, but.
Charging out there and, and transforming it. And I think that's really a fascinating thing. It's just amazing to see how data helps with that journey. So thank you. So thanks. Thanks very much for talking to us today.
RODC043 - Moin Haque: It's a pleasure.